Mantis-kinden, by David Mumford : Shadows of the Apt

Mantis-kinden, by David Mumford

You'll find the latest piece of art by David here

A relic of the dark ages before the revolution, Mantis-kinden were once the great fighting power in the world. Even though their time has passed and they field no armies and seldom take an interest in the world, they remain unequalled killers, swift and deadly beyond any other kinden. Now they keep to their forest strongholds and brood over all that they have lost. Honour is everything, to the Mantis-kinden. Their stories are filled with blood and tragedy.

Posted by Adrian Tchaikovsky on November 8th, 2008

Posted in Art, Kinden

Tags: mantids

42 Comments

42 comments to “Mantis-kinden, by David Mumford”

The Insect of the Tragic Amours : Shadows of the Apt, November 8th, 2008 at 9:03 pm:

[…] it’s Mantis month this month, and you can find David’s artwork here and the Mantis story, The […]
Tom Sawyer, October 21st, 2009 at 8:48 pm:

Are there spines retractable
Daniel, November 13th, 2009 at 3:07 am:

I must say, Mantis spines confuse me. What area do they come from on the forearms?

also, i am having trouble visualizing Tisamon's claw weapon. how does it work?
Natalle, April 7th, 2010 at 9:04 pm:

I haven't read very much of these books yet, but from the sound of it Tisamon's blade sounds a bit like a Sai, only maybe with a different shape of blade? From the way he flips it between a forward position to back against his arm that's the closest thing I can think of.
Adrian Tchaikovsky, April 10th, 2010 at 12:22 am:

not really like a sai, no. If you look on the US cover to Blood of the Mantis, that's a fair representation. It's a blade attatched to the fingers of a gauntlet. Probably horribly impractical. Mantis-kinden evidently have strong fingers/
Shaun Coburn, October 19th, 2010 at 2:11 am:

i would envison the weapon to be two s‑bend blades with the end facing dow and the two blades conected about 1/4 of the way up.. thats just the way i orginaly thought it would look like. (i live in the u.s. and im still waiting for Dragonfly falling.)
Flynn, February 7th, 2011 at 10:05 am:

I must say, I really didn't picture the mantis swords to be that way. I thought they would be long slender blades that were extremely light and fast. A perfect embodiment of the Mantis-kinden themselves.
Adrian Tchaikovsky, February 7th, 2011 at 7:24 pm:

Reply @ Flynn — actually the best representation of Tisamon's Mantis claw is on the US cover of Blood of the Mantis.
Jeff, March 9th, 2011 at 9:10 pm:

I know you've said it twice Adrian, but I always envisioned it as a fully bladed Kama.

Love your work man, currently on "Blood of the Mantis", and can't read fast enough!
Moon, March 25th, 2011 at 6:10 am:

Just a quick question, after reading the scarab path i found out something interesting. The marsh based mantids have no idea that their lowlander cousins exits right? Does it mean they do not have the kinden hatred towards spiders? And also would they posses somewhat different arts than other mantids seeing as a marshland is different from a forest
Adrian Tchaikovsky, March 27th, 2011 at 10:41 pm:

The Marsh-folk have very similar Art to their Lowlander relatives, but the Spider-hatred is definitely just a Lowlander thing.
Moon Kim, March 28th, 2011 at 3:11 am:

Thanks for the reply, now to mull over why just lowlanders… Also is Chosen of the marsh a weaponmaster in a different name? Since they wouldn't even known Parosyl would even exist.
low, March 31st, 2011 at 9:40 pm:

I know you've touch on this a lot but I'm still confused about the mantis claw. It's a gauntlet, does that mean that it has articulated fingers and is the claw hinged? Also, those undersea pugilist are cool. I had a hard time finding out what their totem "insect" was. At first I thought they were lobsters. Little disappointed that there were no pistol shrimps though, come on a giant claw that shoots sonic blast. (I thought this was the appropriate place to put them seeing as they are "cousins " to the mantises.)
Adrian Tchaikovsky, April 1st, 2011 at 6:18 pm:

The "claw" is a gauntlet with a metal blade fixed to jut between or over the fingers, with a crossbar for grip — there are no real moving parts (and just as well). Pistol Shrimp-kinden almost certainly exist as a subset of the Swiftclaw lot, and a sonic attack Art seems appealing 🙂
low, April 3rd, 2011 at 9:31 pm:

So the claw is sort of like a Indian pata.
Adrian Tchaikovsky, April 4th, 2011 at 8:20 pm:

Reply @ Low — very similar, except the angle of the blade can be angled with the hand (or even folded back) — so a little like a katar/push dagger built into a gauntlet.

They should probably come with some manner of health warning if you're not a Mantis-kinden…
blundering beetle, October 28th, 2011 at 4:10 pm:

i kind of imagined the spine going the opposite way, according to the american cover of blood of the mantis, with tisamon on it.
Adrian Tchaikovsky, October 28th, 2011 at 4:35 pm:

Open to interpretation, I guess. Perhaps it varies individual to individual.
luke hemming, July 18th, 2012 at 9:46 pm:

ik im picking up an old thread here with tisamon's gauntlet but youll have to forgive me as ive only just started the shadow of the apt books. Mr tchaikovsky with your permission id like to try and make tisamon's claw so i can dress as the noble mantid warrior.

any further information you can share would be extreamly helpful paticularly about the blade itself like its size and shape, whether its single edged or multiple edged.
Adrian Tchaikovsky, July 18th, 2012 at 10:59 pm:

By all means give it a shot. The actual blade I always envisaged as relatively short (shortsword length at most) and probably with one fully sharp edge, and the first few inches of the back edge sharpened. I guess it could be straight or slightly curved.
luke hemming, July 23rd, 2012 at 1:12 pm:

i have managed to do a few concept sketches (term used loosely as im no artist) for the mantis claw i'm going to be making and i wanted to ask, is there anywhere that i could post these so i could get feed back on them?
selena, January 14th, 2013 at 8:22 am:

Gratings from Germany!
I finshed "empire in Black and Gold" yesterday and believe me i never read faster. and can´t wait for the next.
I don´t know what every one have with this blade?
yes Tisamon often use it and you wrote that it is typical Weapon for the Mantis.
But come on he is more than his blade. in my imagination( before i have a look at the cover at from the Internet) he is some kind of Samurai but with more practical cloths. I m more interested in what he had study as he hung up with stenwold first. Will i get the answer in one of the next books? or was that told and lost in the translation?
Oh and if start asking tn i have an other more general question:
about this technical ability a strict thing. (over set in our world) like i have a pc in frond of me but i don´t find or understand that i have to tun it on or more like I use it(because somebody show me how to use) but if it shows a error message I call for help?
Adrian Tchaikovsky, January 14th, 2013 at 7:50 pm:

I wasn't aware of any particular controversy about Tisamon's blade. As far as his training, you kind of see what he went through by watching Tynisa, especially in the 2^nd book.
As far as the Aptitude, if you were Inapt, then you could be taught by rote to, say, press a button that turned a computer on, but you'd probably press the reset button by mistake a few times, or maybe press it too hard and break it. And once it was on, you'd just sit there looking at it, without the faintest idea what to do with it.
Iggy, April 30th, 2013 at 4:35 pm:

Greetings! Since I discovered this series a little over a year ago I couldn't get enough of it, it's easily my favorite fantasy story/series to date. Now, while I like at least some aspects about every kinden mentioned so far, my favorites are the Mantids and I would like to know, do they know unarmed combat? Which is to say, not using their spines for slashing, that has been described many times, but actual hand-to-hand if you will, punching, kicking, grappling, throwing, that kind of stuff. I know that it's never been mentioned specifically, maybe that should be a hint to me. It just seems to me that, as the finest warriors in the known world, by far, this is something they would know.
Adrian Tchaikovsky, April 30th, 2013 at 6:17 pm:

We don't see a lot of unarmed combat amongst the Mantids — as most of them have their spines, it's unlikely that they would spend much time developing styles of fighting that don't take advantage of them — but like most combat styles I'm sure there's lots of fists, feet, elbows and knees in with the pointy bits. We do see the Dragonfly-kinden (for whom having built-in spikes is rarer) are good at unarmed fighting and, as there are plenty of Mantids in their Commonweal, it's likely that they have the chance to learn the same techniques.
Iggy, April 30th, 2013 at 7:10 pm:

Thanks for the reply! I know that, given their general mindset, it would indeed be rare for them to use actual unarmed techniques. Despite this they're just awesome, as far as I'm concerned. Still, it would be cool to see something to that extent, maybe in a short story or some such. Take for example Isendter the Whitehand. He struk me as someone who might use nonlethal force in certain situations at least, just by his demeanor.
Iggy, May 30th, 2013 at 4:47 pm:

Another thing that interests me is, how good are they at climbing? I don't mean the Art for it but actual skill. Since they live in forests, are hunters and all that I would think it something natural for them to learn, even if they don't possess the Art for it.
Adrian Tchaikovsky, May 30th, 2013 at 10:39 pm:

As they're generally forest dwelling, I'd assume they're fairly handy with it even without Art, yes.
Iggy, September 2nd, 2013 at 8:03 pm:

I appreciate the info. The thing about the Mantids is, when it comes to fantasy settings, be it movies, books, games, whatever, I always lean towards the warrior types, but not simple brutes, individuals with exceptional skill, and with this series, you've created, as far as I'm concerned, the most skilled fighters that I've encountered in any medium. Granted, I certainly haven't read a whole lot of books in the genre, but still, they are outstanding in that regard. That's why they're my favorite and I can't help but compare them to some other characters, specifically in this case to the TaiGethen elves, from James Barclay's books. They strike me as quite similar in a lot of areas and I'm trying to see how they stack up to one another.

And just a quick return to the unarmed combat thing, this is what I want to know, to put it plainly: In your own mind, if a Mantis-kinden decided, for whatever reason, that he/she was going to fight their opponent with their bare hands, no weapons or art-spines whatsoever, would they be able to do it with the same amount of skill that they usually present?
Adrian Tchaikovsky, September 2nd, 2013 at 8:10 pm:

I don't see why not. And one of the things I'm learning in my sword classes is that most armed fighting is only a single move off becoming a wrestling match. I suspect that there isn't a warrior culture anywhere that doesn't learn a form of unarmed combat — and not all Mantids actually have the spines (according to my original notes anyway — I'm not sure I've actually written any that didn't have them, because they're so iconic.)
Iggy, September 2nd, 2013 at 9:26 pm:

That's very true. When I had started taking Kenjutsu classes, I had started off with the sword(bo ken) and later added Shorinji Kempo, but one of the first things I learned is that the stances in one discipline are the same for the other, at least the most basic ones are, not to mention that there are many techniques involving you starting off with a weapon, striking, but then using some form of grab or lock to neutralize the opponent. And a whole bunch of other things, it's been a while since I've been attending. 🙂
As for the spines, I noticed you mentioning in a comment somewhere that MOST of them have them, therefore obviously not ALL, but it's never been mentioned in any of the books. Bit of a shame, when I think about it, it would be interesting(to me, at least) to see a character like that.
Adrian Tchaikovsky, September 2nd, 2013 at 9:33 pm:

Maybe there's a short story in that.
Nelvis, March 22nd, 2014 at 1:34 pm:

I should say that it was because of this exact page that I began to read the books. And I am glad for them. It is rare to find a world written to be almost completely different than anything else I have ever read.

However, I feel I should return here and vocalize what I have "seen" in the books to help the people here.

First, the spines of the mantids. Several times they are referenced in the books. It is known that a single slit in the sleeve of a shirt will reveal them all, and prevent them from being caught in the fabric. This implies, to me, that like a real praying mantis, the blades are in a SINGLE line (not dispersed as in the sketch), and curved backwards, towards the elbow, like a multi-bladed kama or sickle where the arm is the haft. This shape is evident in how Tisamon loves to hold them against people he isn't trying to kill. It also implies they are long when extended, easily a foot or more in length.

The Master's sword that Tisamon uses is something else. It is a "folding blade", akin to a switchblade, not a spring loaded knuckle blade a'la Wolverine from the X‑men (which is what is shown on the cover of Blood of the Mantis, and from what I have read, is completely wrong). To maintain usable strength, it is logical that the blade would open and close along it's cutting plane, and not sideways, which would weaken it.

Furthermore, two other occurrences point to the shape and nature of the blade. 1) when Tisamon misses with his metal blade, he makes up for the miss by continuing the strike with his Art blades. This is evident in his very first fight, and suggests that both the Master's blade and his own spines are more or less in line with each other. 2) at one point Tisamon holds his arm parallel to the ground, and the blade itself hangs, in fact, PERPENDICULAR to his arm when held like that.

This implies to me that the Master's sword is, in fact, exactly the most obvious and logical weapon for a mantis: the scythe claw of an actual mantis!! (Odd no one would think to look up a mantis to see that they actually have both a scything claw and "arm spines" before discussing it here).

That said, the sword is a slightly arced switchblade that lays flush against the arm, likely adjacent to the arm spines, in a special hinged "sheath". From how Tisamon seems to use it, it has a catch mechanism that locks the blade in place, and a hinge somewhere near the wrist. Tisamon seems to mostly slash with the blade, suggesting a sharpened outer edge and point, and can pierce with it on a backswing of his arm. It is also noted on his first fight that he has mastered the weapon so that it swings open and is in actual motion as he attacks with it, implying the movement of his arm works the catch mechanism. It is, in fact, the actual "claw of a mantis" masterfully worked in superfine steel and chitin.

I know there will be some argument about the final position of the blade, but at no point does it seem to me that Tisamon "punches" with the blade, preferring to slash when moving forward and stab when drawing his arm back. It is also less logical, as the blade would be sideways and much more prone to breaking if he used it as a punch dagger. More likely it is a scything weapon, making him look as if he were dancing and the simple movement of him passing you, in one direction or another, would slice you open.

Did this help? I don't mean to sound condescending. As a long time fan of bladed weapons (and in fact, all medieval weapons) and a graphic designer, it seems obvious to me that the Mantis blade was, in fact, a mantis' blade (which also explains why no other kinden could use it. It would take an apt kinden to even begin to get what the sword does, while a mantis would instinctively understand the natural weapon of their Ancestor)
Nelvis, March 22nd, 2014 at 1:51 pm:

Hmm. May be wrong about how the Art spines of a mantis kinden are shaped. On an actual praying mantis they, in fact, point forward.. And the several times Tisamon pins them to someone, I can't quite get how he is reaching around them.
Nelvis, March 26th, 2014 at 12:53 am:

… And after reading some more, more carefully, the blade does seem to be able to extend straight out. But then so does an actual mantis claw. So it makes sense. Man I love this series. 🙂
Iggy, May 2nd, 2014 at 3:53 pm:

Nelvis, a very comprehensive post, I, for one, appreciate the info. A few points of my own…

Considering the spines, seeing pictures of mantis insects, I'e noticed that the arm spines(not the claw) are actually made in two rows, one next to the other. This allows the the mantis to fold it's hands(claws, that is) completely against the arms. This is how I imagine the spines to be on Mantis-kinden, it actually makes sense to me for several reasons, for instance, it would be easier to fold them in along the arm, plus, if the forearms are rotated toward and pressed against the upper arms, it just seems to me like it would be more "natural" fr there to be two rows than just one.

As for the claw weapon(which you refer to as the Master's weapon), it has been stated that the blade is folded along the arm of the wielder and that, when unfolded, it basically moves along the length of the arm, kind of like a sting. This is, at least, how I always pictured it, I could be wrong.
I've also always figured that the blade itself was parallel to the hand with the edges to the side, like a sword placed on a table. But again, could be wrong.

One of the things that I find really appealing about this series(and I don't know if this is done intentionally) is that Adrian doesn't go into a lot of details when it comes to the matter of combat, rather, he outlines the basic elements of a fight and leaves most details unsaid. This leaves a lot of room for interpretation, which to me is(for the most part, at least) a great thing since it leaves the reader to work things out for themselves. Excellent series.
Gazz, July 18th, 2014 at 7:15 am:

on the subject of the mantis art spines i personally theorize that although mantis's (the insect that is) has two rows of arm spines to accommodate its hand without self injury mantis kinden would have a single row of spines on the outside of their arms at two outside angles (to maximize striking area) and of course the size of the spines would depend on how strong that particular art was in the individual so tisamon's must put scorpion claymore's to shame. and as for the mantis claw weapon i just finished building a "safe" (wood and foam) prototype for larp and the only way i can get it to a wield-able level of development was to triple hinge with two metal "stoppers" that i riveted onto my leather gauntlet and cut a slot into the back of the blade almost as long as my middle two fingers put bar through it as a handle with blade mostly between my fingers. hope that helps. hammer and tongs that seems a lot more complex in writing however i can assure you i only used inapt means to make it (for authenticity)
Adrian Tchaikovsky, July 18th, 2014 at 10:55 pm:

That sounds pretty good, actually.
Daniel, January 24th, 2015 at 7:09 pm:

I love this series, on heirs of the blade now.
EBG, Chapter One – Political Aptitude, October 28th, 2017 at 6:14 pm:

[…] exactly, but there are some definite parallels, usefully discussed (with several discarded) in the comments on this post. The claw seems to be somewhat akin to the Indian pata or (dand)patta, a gauntlet sword used in the […]
Taylor Frymier, June 27th, 2018 at 3:13 am:

Do mantids have their own demonym? The question could apply to all other kindens, as well…

Follow up: do mantids (and again, all other kinden) have their own language?

Elaboration: the mantis holds seem to contain heavy use of the letter /y/, which gives me reason to believe they do have their own linguistic context separate from that of other kinden. Similar linguistic clues among other place names in other kinden cultures give credence to this theory.

I know I'm coming to this discussion late, but I hope to get a few responses.
Adrian Tchaikovsky, June 27th, 2018 at 6:53 pm:

All the kinden speak the same language, and in fact the concept of there even being another language is somewhat alien to them. The closest thing in-setting is the court language of the Commonweal, now disused but devised artificially to baffle the lower classes and demonstrate the aesthetic sophistication of the nobility. There are demonyms in the setting, but referring to place rather than kinden — so Felyal Mantids are the Felyen, Netheryon Mantids are the Netheryen, etc. In times past there were different languages, the relic of which is in the different naming conventions and a few other peculiarities of the kinden. The font of language, however, is external and related to the Art (especially the Art that allows speech with insects), and so individual languages have converged in deep time until one united language is left.

Shadows of the Apt